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I need advice re: fanfic.

  • Aug. 31st, 2007 at 11:51 PM
Heartstrings/VM/Logan
So, yeah, I’m writing a VM fanfic. Don’t laugh! And when I do I try to stay close to canon. What can I say, I’m a masochist. In the course of writing I came to that pesky FBI Internship Veronica supposedly got. I planned to stifle my disbelief (forget suspending it, in VM case it has to be beaten down with butch boots and grounded into dust in order to swallow what Rob Thomas is selling). I figured I might as well go to a web-site and read what such an internship would entail.

And I am, once again, confronted by the fact that Rob Thomas is either incapable of learning, lives in his own reality, or else, thinks his audience is illiterate and addle-minded. Because it took me all of 12 seconds of Googling to find out what he was too lazy to look up.

1. FBI does NOT take freshmen into their Internship program Applicants must be in their junior or senior year!
2. Applications are due in earlier October!
3. An extencive interview process is set up, both at the local field office and then, if you pass that, at the headquarters in Washington, D.C. by early November.
4. Final decisions are generally made in November, and selected candidates receive a conditional job offer soon thereafter.
5. And this little sticky point right from their site: Background Investigation – Candidates who accept a conditional job offer will be asked to complete the required background investigation paperwork and will be scheduled for a security interview, pre-employment polygraph examination to check the truthfulness of all of your responses (I can just hear that: Miss Mars, have you ever committed a Federal crime? Say, helped a fugitive flee the country? Please answer yes or no), urinalysis test, and fingerprinting. FBI investigators will also contact former and current employers, references, social acquaintances, and neighbors, and review school, credit, arrest, medical, and military records. The length of your background investigation depends on a number of different variables, including how quickly and thoroughly you complete the background investigation documents; the extent of your foreign travel or time living abroad; and inconsistencies in the application and investigation process.

There’s no way in hell Veronica Mars makes it past any of this! None!

And if in some alternate universe she does, here’s the exciting work she’d be stuck with performing enthusiastically:

1. "As an Honors Intern, you will have opportunities to participate in executive briefings; field trips to the FBI Academy, the FBI Laboratory, and the Washington Field Office; special tours of FBI Headquarters, etc. You will find it to be an intense, fun-filled, and rewarding summer."

For that, read "field trips" and long, boring meetings you have to take extensive notes at.

2. "Projects vary according to the background of the Honors Intern. For example, in past years Honors Interns with a Psychology, Forensic Psychology, Sociology, Behavioral Science, or Criminology background have worked on research projects such as the analysis of crime data."

Yes, Veronica, you can look forward to the hours and hours of fascinating staring at the charts and printouts! Yippee! But hey, you get to compile the whole sheets of paper, sort them by color, and stuff them into neat packages! And that label-maker is a hoot!

"Projects also vary based on the division of assignment. For example, Honors Interns assigned to the FBI's Inspection Division have audited divisions throughout the United States to assure compliance with FBI regulations."

Regulation compliance, Veronica! Just the thing you are so good at! It’s practically your field of expertise right there. Plus, think of the fun studying all those thick volumes of rules and regulations!

"Honors Interns assigned to the FBI Office of Public Affairs have conducted readership surveys for the FBI's internal magazine ("The Investigator"), analyzed the results, and presented recommendations for future issues."

As someone who’s done "readership surveys," I am here to tell you that it’s right up there with root canals and OBGYN visits for sheer entertainment value.

Sigh. I’m getting to the point, honestly. The advice I need is whether I should rework my plot (or what passes for plot in my story) to ignore this travesty and make like Veronica never heard of this Internship? Or should I treat reality the same way RT does and just pretend the Universe obeys my misconceptions? Help!

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Comments

[info]leucocrystal wrote:
Sep. 1st, 2007 07:11 am (UTC)
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU, UGH. Can you believe people actually didn't believe me, when I said all this months ago? I CANNOT EVEN.

What drove me crazy (other than blatant ignorance of, I dunno, FACTS) is that, like you highlighted here, it's a horribly mismatched career for Veronica, in more ways than I can count. Which I also outlined back then. Why does no one listen to me?! *weeps in corner*

As for your question, I honestly think... there's going with the flow of canon, and then there's writing within any semblance of reality. And if you're interested in the latter? VM: FBI just... does not exist. At all. So... that's my advice.

(Also, WHEE, fic! From you! *dances*)
[info]stephanierb wrote:
Sep. 1st, 2007 02:55 pm (UTC)

It's ridiculous, isn't it? I made the mistake of engaging in a debate with someone who thought it was a fabulous idea and when I pointed out all of these reasons why it would never happen, do you know what response I got?

That since Dick's mother was married to Arnold Schwarzenegger's business manager, it was plausible that the governor would pull some strings on Veronica's behalf to get her into the FBI. And they were serious.

I gave up at that point because it became abundantly clear that they would allow Rob Thomas to write whatever the hell he wanted and they would still think it was brilliant. As frustrating as it was for me, I can only imagine what it was like for you since it's your field.
[info]hiddeneloise wrote:
Sep. 2nd, 2007 03:40 am (UTC)
That since Dick's mother was married to Arnold Schwarzenegger's business manager, it was plausible that the governor would pull some strings on Veronica's behalf to get her into the FBI. And they were serious.

Right, because Dick Casablancas would be so eager to do a favor for Veronica Freaking Mars! And because Dick's mother would be doubly so, what with Veronica essentially being involved in her other son's death and all. Because people tend to not think of little things like that. Dick's mom would be just begging her new husband to ask his employer to pull the strings for this girl. And because Arnold Schwarzenegger has those kinds of strings to pull in the first place. After all, it's only the FBI! Honestly, who doesn't have the sway over that little, pliable, easily-manipulated, completely irresponsible organization? I bet a silly Federal agency like that just can't wait to do a solid to a state governor with a silly name and no real political cache!

*Snort.

I'm not surprised you let it drop. Some people are just too stupid to argue with. :))
[info]leucocrystal wrote:
Sep. 2nd, 2007 06:28 am (UTC)
Wow, that's a new one... how inventive! (See also: ridiculous and misinformed, not to mention STUPID.)

I certainly can't blame you for giving up. And yeah, it was tough, because like you say, it's my area, dammit. Rob can fuck up whatever he wants, be as cavalier as he likes, and crow about he's above doing any kind of "research" whatsoever, but he needs to stay the hell out of MY sandbox, dammit! Sigh.
[info]hiddeneloise wrote:
Sep. 2nd, 2007 03:29 am (UTC)
Can you believe people actually didn't believe me, when I said all this months ago? I CANNOT EVEN.

I'm assuming "they" are the VM_fans people?

But Zellie, don't you realize that Rob Thomas is god, and, as such, can make whatever reality, dismiss facts, and change the laws of the universe at will? I can't believe you don't accept that as a given! What's wrong with you?! LOL.

Sigh. You know, if RT came out and said that, for the purposes of the story he wants to tell, he is going to ignore how things are done in this field, I still won't like it, but I'll at least respect him for his honesty. As it is, the guy blatantly declares that he doesn't do research at all, because he can't be bothered. Dude! It's not "research" if it takes less than a minute to find relevant info. I know nothing about FBI or law enforcement procedures in general, and all I write is a lowly fanfic. And still I consider it beneath me to at least not attempt to get my facts straight before I post something. He writes for television! And he doesn't even have to fact-check himself. He can get an office flunky who pours his coffee into that "anal rape" mug every morning to Google it. It's not an obscure knowledge we are after here. Urgh!

The sheer laziness of it drives me insane. Why should I, as a viewer, bother to watch anything of his, if RT tells me outright he doesn't care enough himself to make any of it even remotely believable? And then the guy has the gaul to crow how "realistic" his show is! Yeah, Rob. Way to not let the facts interfere with a good story!

Thank you for your advice. I'll see what to do as the story progresses. Part of me just itches to drop the whole Internship thing as if it never happened, and part of me wants to take the_spin's advice and get Veronica there just to set her up to be humiliated. You know, have her realize for once that she is not, in fact, smarter than everyone. And that she doesn't fit at all. Not because she is so downtrodden and misunderstood, but because she has essentially become an 09ner of the intellect: entitled, self-important and smug without much to back it up.

And thank you for your enthusiasm about the fic! I'm kind of nervous now I won't live up to it. LOL.
[info]leucocrystal wrote:
Sep. 2nd, 2007 06:34 am (UTC)
Yeah, it was pretty much vm_fans and/or cloud_watchers. I'm sure you are shocked to hear this, SHOCKED!

Like you, if he would have just admitted it's for the service of a story (though, like you, I hardly think totally ignoring any sense of realism doesn't do stories -- that aren't firmly rooted in the "fantasy" genre, anyway -- an ounce of service), then it wouldn't have been so bad. But no, he's just "too lazy" to be bothered. ASS. Ugh.

I can definitely understand the want to go with [info]the_spin's idea -- as soon as I read it, I found myself thinking the same! It's about damn time Veronica gets some kind of comeuppance for knocking down everyone around her who ever gave a care about her well-being. And honestly, I think [info]secrets_and_lie had it right, when she wrote her own post-S3 fic; at this point, Veronica's character is pretty much irredeemable at this point, unless something major happens to change things. Maybe being totally humiliated at the FBI Academy would work for you! LOL.

Anyway, don't be nervous! You're a great writer, and I'm sure we'll enjoy anything you can come up with. :)
[info]hiddeneloise wrote:
Sep. 3rd, 2007 04:56 am (UTC)
I'm sure you are shocked to hear this, SHOCKED!


Stunned. Knocked over with a feather. In a state of utter disbelief... Oh, who are we kidding?! LOL.

Veronica's character is pretty much irredeemable at this point, unless something major happens to change things. Maybe being totally humiliated at the FBI Academy would work for you! LOL.

Well, I may be delusional (it is certainly not out of the question), but taking Kristen Bell and her acting choices out of the equation and looking at the character, I see patterns in need of breaking for Veronica to have a chance with anyone, let alone Logan. But I also see her as not quite irredeemable. More like entrenched and petrified. And definitely it would take something big to shake her out of that very self-destructive behavior she's adopted. Humiliation of a professional kind might be in order. What she needs is for her complacency in her own judgment to be rattled fundamentally. She is so convinced she's right most of the time, no matter how often she's proven wrong, it would take something major for the realization to sink in. But she might not need the FBI for that. The consequences of her actions in the finale can be serious enough for her and her dad to accomplish just that.

And now I have rewrites to do. LOL. And thank you so much for your kindness and confidence. :)
[info]leucocrystal wrote:
Sep. 3rd, 2007 09:37 am (UTC)
Oh, I don't think you're delusional! I suppose "irredeemable" is a pretty strong word, and a very difficult one for any writer to work around, obviously, but... I guess for me, over the course of the three seasons, my biggest problem with Veronica didn't even have to do with KB's diva-like behavior (shocking, I know!) so much as the writing. I think Rob dug too deep a ditch in this regard: he buried Veronica far too deep inside her own head.

In the beginning, the VMVOs were our insight into her character, and they let us share her headspace. But towards the end, they only served as exposition, or seemed to have no use at all (and I'm pretty sure I've discussed this writing issue with you in the past), and what did that leave us with? A girl we no longer understood nor could relate to, and if any of her actions had any sort of motivations that made sense? We weren't privy to them. For me, that's an incredibly difficult platform to jump off from, if that makes sense.

That's not to say it can't be done; over the course of S3, I think we saw a nice little influx of fic that showed how much more talented some of the fandom writers are than Rob and co., which, well, at least we have that, right? I just think it takes a lot more work to make anything that's not only good, but that even fits into the same universe anymore.

It also makes me very uneasy about ever finishing and posting that fic I've mentioned in the past. I'm not sure I can dig her out of that hole.
[info]solflower22 wrote:
Sep. 1st, 2007 12:21 pm (UTC)
I am still SO BITTER that she supposedly got that internship because I TRIED TO APPLY FOR IT, GOD DAMNIT. I didn't even make it to the interview because I was studying abroad and they refused to re-schedule for me, but anyway, I seriously wanted that for YEARS so it really pisses me off how much they BUTCHED IT, GAH!
[info]solflower22 wrote:
Sep. 1st, 2007 12:23 pm (UTC)
Oh wait, SORRY, there was an actual question in your post right? I would LOVE for yout to ignore any of Season 3 (at least the second half), but if you want to follow canon, just dump the FBI internship. Because it's just so beyond realistic, in too many ways. Maybe Veronica decides to stay home with her dad for the summer, I don't know...
[info]hiddeneloise wrote:
Sep. 2nd, 2007 03:58 am (UTC)
Thank you. Yeah, the consensus seems to be on ignoring the whole FBI mess. I'll see how it goes. Certainly deciding to stay with her dad for the summer sounds a hell of a lot more plausible than this travesty of an internship. After all, she's all but caused her dad's latest downfall. Staying with him through the aftermath is the least she can do.
[info]hiddeneloise wrote:
Sep. 2nd, 2007 03:54 am (UTC)
Sigh, I am so sorry you didn't get to interview!

And, actually, what you are saying is convincing me even more that someone like Veronica Mars couldn't possibly get in there, even as an intern. Forget that she is on their "shit list" for the whole Donut run thing. Forget the polygraph test she is not passing ever! Forget the kind of "background" her acquaintances would paint to the investigating officials. Forget her arrests record. If the Bureau is not willing to even budge on something like re-scheduling an interview for a viable candidate, I do not see them bending the requirements for a freshman, no matter how highly lauded by Landry, and no matter who Landry knew there. Even if it's the director himself. This is not an organization that bends its rules for anyone, let alone some obscure unqualified non-candidate with a murky legal past and vigilante attitude.

Sigh.
[info]the_spin wrote:
Sep. 1st, 2007 12:43 pm (UTC)
I think you should use the idea I had for the fic I was writing and subsequently abandoned, which was: have her get the internship (of course with the people telling her that she got in only because Landry was a really close friend), but then she gets KICKED OUT when they find her snooping. On her face. Because let's face it, the FBI is fucking smarter than Veronica Mars.

Seriously though, ignore it. It was so stupid in the first place. And I'm excited to hear that you're writing!
[info]hiddeneloise wrote:
Sep. 2nd, 2007 04:12 am (UTC)
Oh, man, I love that idea about Veronica falling on her face hard! She needs to get slapped by reality, and who better than a bunch of over-achievers at least as smart -- if not smarter -- than she is and nowhere near as careless with the facts or as ready to form judgments as Veronica! I bet she'd find she is out-scored, out-witted and out-classed in every aspect of whatever internal competition there would be. (Though internships aren't competitions, they are jobs with pay. Each intern has their own position and is rated by how well they do, not how well they do in comparison with others.). And those are just fellow interns. If she tries something on her own, to show just how much smarter she is than the actual agents, man! I can just see her getting caught in 15 minutes and getting into actual, serious trouble. FBI, I would imagine, does not let these things go easily. At least not in real life, whatever Rob Thomas' "reality" may suggest. I am tempted to write that, just so I can have Veronica realize what an over-hyped fraud she is. Sigh.

But I might drop it after all. It's tempting, but in the end, the whole FBI thing is just irksome. And thank you so much for your excitement about the fic. LOL. I'm scared to disappoint now! :)
[info]stephanierb wrote:
Sep. 1st, 2007 03:23 pm (UTC)
Every time I think about that stupid internship I want to pull out all of my hair. The idea that Veronica Mars could get into the FBI is laughable and insulting to my intelligence. If by some miracle she managed to get through the screening, she wouldn't last one day.

I'm a bit torn regarding your story. While I prefer staying as close to canon as possible, I find the whole internship thing so ludicrous that I would prefer to see it ignored in fic.

However, I really like [info]the_spin's idea. Given what we've had to suffer through regarding Veronica's characterization in S3, I would love to see her get her comeuppance. It would be wonderful for her to encounter her supervisor in the FBI and find that he/she doesn't think the sun shines out of her ass. It would be great to see someone smart, accomplished and respectable bring her down to size. Just thinking about that happening makes me smile.
[info]hiddeneloise wrote:
Sep. 2nd, 2007 04:18 am (UTC)
The idea that Veronica Mars could get into the FBI is laughable and insulting to my intelligence. If by some miracle she managed to get through the screening, she wouldn't last one day.

Absolutely. Sigh. So frustrating.

I like the_spin's idea, too. Veronica needs a hard lesson from somewhere, and I just don't think the guilt over ruining her father's chances in the election and possibly landing him in jail is enough to stop her from feeling smug about her intelligence and sleuthing abilities. I am going to see what develops in the story. If I can write it at least marginally in a believable way, I'll keep it. If it's going to rub me the wrong way as a concept, then it'll have to go.

And thank you! :)
[info]starhermione86 wrote:
Sep. 2nd, 2007 11:04 pm (UTC)
I think Veronica as the FBI agent extraordinare is one of the top ten stupidest things Rob Thomas came up with. I vote you leave it out and have her make several snarky comments about all forms of bureacracy. It seems more in character with Season 1 Veronica. I completely ignore season 3: it seems more like a badly written fanfic than an actual show... Complete with the Gary Stu character Piz. *fights off wave nausea accompanied with typing the name* I can't wait to read the new fanfic, I love all your work!
[info]starhermione86 wrote:
Sep. 2nd, 2007 11:09 pm (UTC)
Oh yeah: I would also like to add that the only way Veronica would pass the polygraph test is if she is a complete sociopath... which let's face it, season 3 Veronica practically is. :D
[info]hiddeneloise wrote:
Sep. 3rd, 2007 04:41 am (UTC)
Indeed. Considering she's been rearranging her reality to suit whatever misconception she'd be embracing at the moment, she was fast becoming the text-book definition of a sociopath. Very sad.
[info]hiddeneloise wrote:
Sep. 3rd, 2007 04:38 am (UTC)
I think Veronica as the FBI agent extraordinare is one of the top ten stupidest things Rob Thomas came up with.

Totally. What boggles my mind is that he said it from day one that he wanted Veronica to have some kind of a career in law enforcement in the future, and then proceeded to develop the character in such a way that makes it impossible to believe she'll ever be able to. Insane.

And, oh man, Piss! Urgh. What a total waste of space, time and show's potential. Even his name is a joke. Sigh.

I can't wait to read the new fanfic, I love all your work!


Thank you so much! I'll try not to disappoint. :)
(Anonymous) wrote:
Sep. 20th, 2007 05:17 am (UTC)
Here's smoking possitve
Veronica only went to the progream because she was the teachers favorite and because he needed the shut her up, he made sure she'll get the internship so really she's there because of good connections.

So you can use that, everybody hates her because she's there out of favoritism and because of her talent.
[info]hiddeneloise wrote:
Sep. 20th, 2007 08:11 pm (UTC)
Re: Here's smoking possitve
Thank you for the suggestion. I don't know how realistic of a situation this would be -- after all people in the program wouldn't know how other people got into it, the process is confidential. Not to mention, she is only a rising sophomore, and FBI does not accept anyone lower than a junior into the Internship. But, since there's precious little realism in the show to begin with, I suppose I can just go ahead and pretend Veronica got in due to Landry's push. I can do something with that. :)
[info]tintin_18 wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2007 09:56 am (UTC)
Re: Here's smoking possitve
*looks around for said fic* I'm more excited to read your fic, whichever way you decide to go, 'coz Logan's gonna be in it. And I miss him so. Pathetic? That's my middle name =)
[info]hiddeneloise wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2007 03:34 pm (UTC)
Re: Here's smoking possitve
LOL. Not at all pathetic. Or, at least, you are not alone in it! I'm excited for anything with Logan, too. :) And the fic is progressing. I need my beta to go over the first installment, but after that, I'll be posting. :) And thank you so much!

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